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Main
Date: 28 Jan 2007 16:12:20
From: RubenD
Subject: Aiptasia question
|
I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help with
the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and left
the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank after
visual inspection.
My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what are
my chances of infecting my tank with them.
How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where the
naked eye might missed them?
Thanks,
Ruben
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 13:54:48
From: RubenD
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
But still wonder the chances....
Ruben
"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help with
> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and left
> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank after
> visual inspection.
>
> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
are
> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
>
> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where the
> naked eye might missed them?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ruben
>
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 13:12:39
From: swarvegorilla
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
>
> But still wonder the chances....
>
>
> Ruben
>
>
> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help
>> with
>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and
>> left
>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank
>> after
>> visual inspection.
>>
>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
> are
>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
>>
>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where
>> the
>> naked eye might missed them?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ruben
nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
then it like rains these little jellyfish things
that become new anemone
they arent so bad
poor apista get a bad rap on the net
personally I recon they are good for beginnners
just a pain for you pro's
kinda like convicts
heh
and yes I breed conesnails as well
:)
good luck on the extermination btw
soak in fresh should have done the trick
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Date: 09 Feb 2007 20:34:50
From: RubenD
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
Thanks,
Ruben
"swarvegorilla" <fatcatfish@optusnet.com.au > wrote in message
news:45cbd87c$0$9773$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> > Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
> >
> > But still wonder the chances....
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> >
> > "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> >> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help
> >> with
> >> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
> >> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
> >> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and
> >> left
> >> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank
> >> after
> >> visual inspection.
> >>
> >> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
> > are
> >> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
> >>
> >> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where
> >> the
> >> naked eye might missed them?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ruben
>
>
> nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
> then it like rains these little jellyfish things
> that become new anemone
>
> they arent so bad
> poor apista get a bad rap on the net
> personally I recon they are good for beginnners
> just a pain for you pro's
> kinda like convicts
> heh
>
> and yes I breed conesnails as well
> :)
> good luck on the extermination btw
> soak in fresh should have done the trick
>
>
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Date: 09 Feb 2007 08:42:48
From: Tristan
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
I agree. I had a tank with aip i it along with other stuff most foks
flush. Mojano, mantis shrimp, bristle worms, asternia stars, aiptasia,
as well as sundial snails. I do not have a problem controlling it and
it as well as other so called undesireables have never really been
anywhere near as bad a problem as most claim them to be.
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:12:39 +1100, "swarvegorilla"
<fatcatfish@optusnet.com.au > wrote:
<< >>
<< >>"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<< >>news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
<< >>> Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
<< >>>
<< >>> But still wonder the chances....
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>> Ruben
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<< >>> news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
<< >>>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help
<< >>>> with
<< >>>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
<< >>>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
<< >>>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and
<< >>>> left
<< >>>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank
<< >>>> after
<< >>>> visual inspection.
<< >>>>
<< >>>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
<< >>> are
<< >>>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
<< >>>>
<< >>>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where
<< >>>> the
<< >>>> naked eye might missed them?
<< >>>>
<< >>>>
<< >>>> Thanks,
<< >>>>
<< >>>> Ruben
<< >>
<< >>
<< >>nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
<< >>then it like rains these little jellyfish things
<< >>that become new anemone
<< >>
<< >>they arent so bad
<< >>poor apista get a bad rap on the net
<< >>personally I recon they are good for beginnners
<< >>just a pain for you pro's
<< >>kinda like convicts
<< >>heh
<< >>
<< >>and yes I breed conesnails as well
<< >>:)
<< >>good luck on the extermination btw
<< >>soak in fresh should have done the trick
<< >>
-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
|
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 05:37:13
From: Wayne Sallee
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
I bet that tank was not as high quality of an
environment as a good reef tank :-) They grow fast
in reef tanks with high intense lighting. Coper
banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty
quickly though.
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com
Tristan wrote on 2/9/2007 9:42 AM:
> I agree. I had a tank with aip i it along with other stuff most foks
> flush. Mojano, mantis shrimp, bristle worms, asternia stars, aiptasia,
> as well as sundial snails. I do not have a problem controlling it and
> it as well as other so called undesireables have never really been
> anywhere near as bad a problem as most claim them to be.
>
>
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:12:39 +1100, "swarvegorilla"
> <fatcatfish@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> <<>>news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> <<>>> Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
> <<>>>
> <<>>> But still wonder the chances....
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Ruben
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> <<>>> news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> <<>>>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help
> <<>>>> with
> <<>>>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
> <<>>>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
> <<>>>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and
> <<>>>> left
> <<>>>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank
> <<>>>> after
> <<>>>> visual inspection.
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
> <<>>> are
> <<>>>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where
> <<>>>> the
> <<>>>> naked eye might missed them?
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Thanks,
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Ruben
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
> <<>>then it like rains these little jellyfish things
> <<>>that become new anemone
> <<>>
> <<>>they arent so bad
> <<>>poor apista get a bad rap on the net
> <<>>personally I recon they are good for beginnners
> <<>>just a pain for you pro's
> <<>>kinda like convicts
> <<>>heh
> <<>>
> <<>>and yes I breed conesnails as well
> <<>>:)
> <<>>good luck on the extermination btw
> <<>>soak in fresh should have done the trick
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 18:36:20
From: George Patterson
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Coper
> banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty quickly though.
The problem with that is that the copper band usually starves after eating all
the anemones.
George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.
|
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 18:53:38
From: Kelsey Cummings
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
George Patterson wrote:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Coper banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty quickly though.
>
> The problem with that is that the copper band usually starves after
> eating all the anemones.
Mine did a number on my aiptasia then wouldn't eat anything but frozen
mysis or brine shrimp until I tried some homemade food.
Blended up to varying degrees of fineness:
Live clams, shucked
Live mussels, shecked
fresh frozen prawns, some shells on
frozen krill
shredded nori
shredded dulce (tangs love this)
some other seaweed I had around
various quantities of flake foods
frozen cyclop-eeze
decapsulated brine shrimp eggs
reef chili
Tahitian blend reef tank formula
super selco
fresh salt water mix to aid mixing.
Everybody in the tank goes crazy for it, including my copper banded
butterfly. My ruby red cardinal (who otherwise hides) darts out to
snack. It wasn't very scientific, but everybody in the tank seems happy
to eat this every day.
-K
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 19:12:13
From: Wayne Sallee
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
They also love worms.
Often people will purchase a fish, and then trade it
in later. Coper banded butterfly fish are a good
candidate for that. Let someone else use them for
aiptasia removal after your tank has been cleaned
out. :-)
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com
George Patterson wrote on 2/14/2007 1:36 PM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Coper banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty quickly though.
>
> The problem with that is that the copper band usually starves after
> eating all the anemones.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Feb 2007 19:14:07
From: Wayne Sallee
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
Also a funny thing about this is that other fish
that would normally never eat aiptasia will see the
coper banded butterfly eating one, and take it a way
and eat it themselves.
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com
Wayne Sallee wrote on 2/19/2007 2:12 PM:
> They also love worms.
>
> Often people will purchase a fish, and then trade it in later. Coper
> banded butterfly fish are a good candidate for that. Let someone else
> use them for aiptasia removal after your tank has been cleaned out. :-)
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
> Wayne@WaynesPets.com
>
> George Patterson wrote on 2/14/2007 1:36 PM:
>> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>>> Coper banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty quickly though.
>>
>> The problem with that is that the copper band usually starves after
>> eating all the anemones.
>>
>> George Patterson
>> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
>> to anything.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 07:44:07
From: Tristan
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
It was merely a tank with some sand, live rock rubble consisting of
mainly pieces which were fragged out with aip or manjano anemones on
them. Allthe bristle worms and asternia stars and naaything else most
folks typically cull and flush........The tank had no special lighting
just a cheap 50/50 15 watt and it looks great........more typical of
an underwater view commonly encountered, off and away from a reef
environment.
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:37:13 GMT, Wayne Sallee <Wayne@WayneSallee.com >
wrote:
<< >>I bet that tank was not as high quality of an
<< >>environment as a good reef tank :-) They grow fast
<< >>in reef tanks with high intense lighting. Coper
<< >>banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty
<< >>quickly though.
<< >>
<< >>Wayne Sallee
<< >>Wayne's Pets
<< >>Wayne@WaynesPets.com
<< >>
<< >>Tristan wrote on 2/9/2007 9:42 AM:
<< >>> I agree. I had a tank with aip i it along with other stuff most foks
<< >>> flush. Mojano, mantis shrimp, bristle worms, asternia stars, aiptasia,
<< >>> as well as sundial snails. I do not have a problem controlling it and
<< >>> it as well as other so called undesireables have never really been
<< >>> anywhere near as bad a problem as most claim them to be.
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:12:39 +1100, "swarvegorilla"
<< >>> <fatcatfish@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
<< >>>
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>> <<>>"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<< >>> <<>>news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
<< >>> <<>>> Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
<< >>> <<>>>
<< >>> <<>>> But still wonder the chances....
<< >>> <<>>>
<< >>> <<>>>
<< >>> <<>>> Ruben
<< >>> <<>>>
<< >>> <<>>>
<< >>> <<>>> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<< >>> <<>>> news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
<< >>> <<>>>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help
<< >>> <<>>>> with
<< >>> <<>>>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
<< >>> <<>>>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
<< >>> <<>>>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and
<< >>> <<>>>> left
<< >>> <<>>>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank
<< >>> <<>>>> after
<< >>> <<>>>> visual inspection.
<< >>> <<>>>>
<< >>> <<>>>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
<< >>> <<>>> are
<< >>> <<>>>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
<< >>> <<>>>>
<< >>> <<>>>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where
<< >>> <<>>>> the
<< >>> <<>>>> naked eye might missed them?
<< >>> <<>>>>
<< >>> <<>>>>
<< >>> <<>>>> Thanks,
<< >>> <<>>>>
<< >>> <<>>>> Ruben
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>> <<>>nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
<< >>> <<>>then it like rains these little jellyfish things
<< >>> <<>>that become new anemone
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>> <<>>they arent so bad
<< >>> <<>>poor apista get a bad rap on the net
<< >>> <<>>personally I recon they are good for beginnners
<< >>> <<>>just a pain for you pro's
<< >>> <<>>kinda like convicts
<< >>> <<>>heh
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>> <<>>and yes I breed conesnails as well
<< >>> <<>>:)
<< >>> <<>>good luck on the extermination btw
<< >>> <<>>soak in fresh should have done the trick
<< >>> <<>>
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>> -------
<< >>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 19:55:48
From: swarvegorilla
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
Well thats the real point then.
It's like in my planted tank.
If I let the iron levels drop I get algae that would scare a pleco
but any of the other planted tanks not under MH lighting
and without CO2 injection
rarely bloom with algae not matter how lazy I get.
The strange thing about many of my apista blooms
has been the amount that grow in low light areas of the tank
under rocks and stuff
In Australia there is an incredibly common fish
called a 'stripey' they will massacre apista's
and just about anything else including urchins
but they are a step up pretty wise (nice stripes!) from apista's
I think most reef keepers are prone to over reacting
they invest so much $$$ into their setups
that they are geared towards heading off problems
weeks and weeks before they could happen.
I mean thats great, but sometimes it's a lot of
hubba-loobah over nothing.
All I know is that if I had a big outbreak in a reef display
I'd be jabbing the things full of hot water
before ya could clean a cannister.
But anywhere else..... I kinda like them.
They can take abuse, need no special care
and it's rare they bloom enuf to hurt fish for me
I'll even admit to being sad when a hermit ate me oldest and largest one.
the one I used to feed live mollies.......
not anymore due to backlash
but anemones of all types are pretty cool to look at
Some are a lot more impressive than dodgy apista's
and many work better in the creations people are creating
But ones that come for free
don't die and even breed
are better than none at all.
Long live da Apista
if only to scare aquarists that deserve it
:-)
once at band camp..............
I got paid $50 an hour for 5 hours to pull apart a 6 foot reef
locate a pistol shrimp and re-assemble.
Person was terrafied it was a mantis despite me reassurance.
ah well, to be sure, to be sure!
woooooooooT!
"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com > wrote in message
news:dexAh.1085$_73.1059@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I bet that tank was not as high quality of an environment as a good reef
>tank :-) They grow fast in reef tanks with high intense lighting. Coper
>banded butterfly fish take care of them pretty quickly though.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
> Wayne@WaynesPets.com
>
> Tristan wrote on 2/9/2007 9:42 AM:
>> I agree. I had a tank with aip i it along with other stuff most foks
>> flush. Mojano, mantis shrimp, bristle worms, asternia stars, aiptasia,
>> as well as sundial snails. I do not have a problem controlling it and
>> it as well as other so called undesireables have never really been
>> anywhere near as bad a problem as most claim them to be.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:12:39 +1100, "swarvegorilla"
>> <fatcatfish@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> <<>>
>> <<>>"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> <<>>news:dhtwh.637$o61.582@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>> <<>>> Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> But still wonder the chances....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> Ruben
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> "RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> <<>>> news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> <<>>>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to
>> help <<>>>> with
>> <<>>>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
>> <<>>>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25
>> small
>> <<>>>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them
>> and <<>>>> left
>> <<>>>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my
>> tank <<>>>> after
>> <<>>>> visual inspection.
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and
>> what
>> <<>>> are
>> <<>>>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level
>> where <<>>>> the
>> <<>>>> naked eye might missed them?
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> Thanks,
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> Ruben
>> <<>>
>> <<>>
>> <<>>nah ya need a big one to have babies in your tank
>> <<>>then it like rains these little jellyfish things
>> <<>>that become new anemone
>> <<>>
>> <<>>they arent so bad
>> <<>>poor apista get a bad rap on the net
>> <<>>personally I recon they are good for beginnners
>> <<>>just a pain for you pro's
>> <<>>kinda like convicts
>> <<>>heh
>> <<>>
>> <<>>and yes I breed conesnails as well
>> <<>>:)
>> <<>>good luck on the extermination btw
>> <<>>soak in fresh should have done the trick
>> <<>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------
>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
|
| | |
Date: 01 Feb 2007 17:48:55
From: Tristan
Subject: Re: Aiptasia question
|
If you look on a newly setup or on a tankj that is not under the best
parameters, on the glass you can see the start of aiptasia. Often
times the new growths go unoticed as its on the back wall in dim light
areas. Less than ideal water parameters help it along. IN good water
parameters its still possible to get them as well as manjano's but
they stay under control relatively good and usualy do not present as
much of a problem.
Since they can shrivel up to a pin point in size, its hard top see any
on a new coral or piece of live rock or even in some sand or rubble or
a stand of macro algae....
Breaking up aip in a tank means each piece can create yet another aip.
I do not have any idea on what long term effect on algae or any other
ine inhabitant would be left standing in freshwater owuld be,
expecially long term, and not just a rinse. I do not have a problem
with getting them and then removing them later on by mechanical
picking or chemical....I think I would prefer to place them in a qt
type tank and observe before placing in main tank, or sump, before I
owuld give me a fresh water long term soak or dip.
Aip is not the end of the world niether is red slime algae or hair
algae...
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:54:48 -0800, "RubenD"
<samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net > wrote:
<< >>Apparently I didn't get any on the tank (I hope).
<< >>
<< >>But still wonder the chances....
<< >>
<< >>
<< >>Ruben
<< >>
<< >>
<< >>"RubenD" <samotors@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<< >>news:eWavh.1777$4H1.565@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
<< >>> I got some caulerpa algae(was the only algae available to me) to help with
<< >>> the red algae (probably due to nitrates in the tank),
<< >>> to my surprise, the bag not only had the caulerpa but about 25 small
<< >>> aiptasias. I washed the algae with tap water to get rid of them and left
<< >>> the algae in a container until the next day when I put it on my tank after
<< >>> visual inspection.
<< >>>
<< >>> My question is, would aiptasia survive a night on tap water, and what
<< >>are
<< >>> my chances of infecting my tank with them.
<< >>>
<< >>> How do they reproduce so fast? Are they at the microscopic level where the
<< >>> naked eye might missed them?
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>> Thanks,
<< >>>
<< >>> Ruben
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>>
<< >>
-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
|
|
