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Date: 22 Jan 2005 05:47:28
From: Dave M. Picklyk
Subject: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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Nearly half a year ago I upgraded to 4 wpg (yah I know, holy crap am I
nuts?) I noticed an increase of algae proliferation. Mostly it (green hard
algae) starts to collect on the glass on the front (Probably because now I
have one of the bulbs closer to the front). My anubias MUST hide under other
plants to grow without algae because of the high lighting. One bush of
plants I have been cropping a lot of leaves off that have spot algae. I know
4wpg is a huge challenge to maintain a balanced aquarium but...any
suggestions?
Specs:
- 15 gallon wide (12" high)
- approx. 24-28ppm C02
- Fertilizing 1/8 tsp (0.6ml) KNO3 every other day and 3/4 tsp (3.6ml) of
traces on the off-days (I stopped doing P...but should I start?)
- Perform a 50% water change every week (scrape glass, remove algae infested
leaves)
- 3 SAEs, 4 otosinclus, 8 harlequin rasboras, some clowns & cats
- 12 hrs/day of 4wpg light with acrylic mirrored reflector (three 24" bulbs
spaced evenly)
- huge amount of plant proliferation, lots of fast growing hygrophila
polysperma, hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig', rotala indica, ludwigia
repens (extremely red, really no green on this plant...possibly a sign that
I need more nitrate?...after the light increase this reddened immensely),
lush and fast growing java fern, hidden anubias growing on driftwood (did
much better when I had 2.66 wpg), a huge forest of crypt that sprouts
everywhere!, bacopa australis that is getting algae on lots of the leaves
but growing fast.
Opinions? Thanx!!
Dave :)
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Date: 24 Jan 2005 06:59:15
From: spiral_72
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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Isn't that an excessive water change? Aren't you flushing a lot of
nutrients by doing a 50% change weekly?
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Date: 23 Jan 2005 01:30:49
From:
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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If you dislike green spot algae, add lots of PO4.
If you like green spot, don't add PO4.
Lower lighting to 10 hours/day.
If things were doing well with 2.6w/gal, why did you change?
More is not better.
A small tank with lots growth needs tended a lot.
Adding more light will require more nutrients and will produce more
growth.
If you can angle or pull the light back away from the glas, that will
also help, unless you grow plants on the glass.
Get some KH2PO4.
www.gregwatson.com
1lb will last about 100 years for this tank.
Regards,
Tom Barr
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Date: 23 Jan 2005 18:10:08
From: Dave M. Picklyk
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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> Lower lighting to 10 hours/day.
I'll try that.
> If things were doing well with 2.6w/gal, why did you change?
well, I was designing an acrylic reflector and decided it would be really
easy to add on more bulb :) Silly me.
> Get some KH2PO4.
I have phosphate, how much should I add? One grain every other day?
Thanx!!
Dave.
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Date: 22 Jan 2005 06:25:31
From: Elaine T
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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Dave M. Picklyk wrote:
> Nearly half a year ago I upgraded to 4 wpg (yah I know, holy crap am I
> nuts?) I noticed an increase of algae proliferation. Mostly it (green hard
> algae) starts to collect on the glass on the front (Probably because now I
> have one of the bulbs closer to the front). My anubias MUST hide under other
> plants to grow without algae because of the high lighting. One bush of
> plants I have been cropping a lot of leaves off that have spot algae. I know
> 4wpg is a huge challenge to maintain a balanced aquarium but...any
> suggestions?
>
> Specs:
> - 15 gallon wide (12" high)
> - approx. 24-28ppm C02
> - Fertilizing 1/8 tsp (0.6ml) KNO3 every other day and 3/4 tsp (3.6ml) of
> traces on the off-days (I stopped doing P...but should I start?)
> - Perform a 50% water change every week (scrape glass, remove algae infested
> leaves)
> - 3 SAEs, 4 otosinclus, 8 harlequin rasboras, some clowns & cats
> - 12 hrs/day of 4wpg light with acrylic mirrored reflector (three 24" bulbs
> spaced evenly)
> - huge amount of plant proliferation, lots of fast growing hygrophila
> polysperma, hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig', rotala indica, ludwigia
> repens (extremely red, really no green on this plant...possibly a sign that
> I need more nitrate?...after the light increase this reddened immensely),
> lush and fast growing java fern, hidden anubias growing on driftwood (did
> much better when I had 2.66 wpg), a huge forest of crypt that sprouts
> everywhere!, bacopa australis that is getting algae on lots of the leaves
> but growing fast.
>
> Opinions? Thanx!!
>
> Dave :)
>
>
>
The red colors on your plants are from the light intensity. That's one
of the really fun results of high light intensity and good amounts of
iron. Spot algae is one that likes high light intensity, which is why
you're seeing it now. I'd actually try dropping the nitrate rather than
increasing because you have a lot of fish in the tank, but don't drop the K.
--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
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Date: 22 Jan 2005 14:00:18
From: Robert Flory
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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"Elaine T" <eethomp@nospam_pacbell.net > wrote in message news:vlmId.13778>
The red colors on your plants are from the light intensity. That's one
> of the really fun results of high light intensity and good amounts of
> iron. Spot algae is one that likes high light intensity, which is why
> you're seeing it now. I'd actually try dropping the nitrate rather than
> increasing because you have a lot of fish in the tank, but don't drop the
> K.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
Actually the reds may be a sign of nitrate deficiency, or so I recall seeing
on APD
Bob
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Date: 23 Jan 2005 09:35:50
From: Richard Sexton
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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In article <csui99$a1p$1@news.astound.net >,
Robert Flory <wyogeo@MORETHANWARMmail.com > wrote:
>
>"Elaine T" <eethomp@nospam_pacbell.net> wrote in message news:vlmId.13778>
>The red colors on your plants are from the light intensity. That's one
>> of the really fun results of high light intensity and good amounts of
>> iron. Spot algae is one that likes high light intensity, which is why
>> you're seeing it now. I'd actually try dropping the nitrate rather than
>> increasing because you have a lot of fish in the tank, but don't drop the
>> K.
>>
>Actually the reds may be a sign of nitrate deficiency, or so I recall seeing
Absolutely. Add nitrates and plants become more green. But red plants are always red,
this isn't going to turn them all green, just a bit less red.
Conversly you can redden up your plants for a picture by restricting nitrate.
Green spot is the easiest alage of all to get rid og. If you have it it
means you havn't spent $15 for a cheap phosphate test kit. Scrape off the alage
with a single edges razor blade, then dose wirh 3ppm of phosphate. You'll
never see it again if you maintain this level. Tom Barr taught me this not
long ago and I must say it works as described in my tanks.
--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org
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Date: 23 Jan 2005 23:04:07
From: Elaine T
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article <csui99$a1p$1@news.astound.net>,
> Robert Flory <wyogeo@MORETHANWARMmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Elaine T" <eethomp@nospam_pacbell.net> wrote in message news:vlmId.13778>
>>The red colors on your plants are from the light intensity. That's one
>>
>>>of the really fun results of high light intensity and good amounts of
>>>iron. Spot algae is one that likes high light intensity, which is why
>>>you're seeing it now. I'd actually try dropping the nitrate rather than
>>>increasing because you have a lot of fish in the tank, but don't drop the
>>>K.
>>>
>>
>>Actually the reds may be a sign of nitrate deficiency, or so I recall seeing
>
>
> Absolutely. Add nitrates and plants become more green. But red plants are always red,
> this isn't going to turn them all green, just a bit less red.
>
> Conversly you can redden up your plants for a picture by restricting nitrate.
>
Interesting. There's a sound biological reason for what I said.
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021026/bob8.asp explains it.
Bright light causing anthocyanin production in plants has been well
documented. Basically anthocyanins are reddish pigments that help
protect a plant's photosynthetic mechanism from being burned out by too
much light.
Reddish aquarium plants like Hygrophila polysperma "sunset", Rotala
indica, Rotala macrantha, Ludwigia spp., and many Crypts and swords do
not display their reddish colors under inadequate light. It takes a lot
of light for anthocyanin production to come into full swing, thus my
reaction that the red was due to high lighting.
Does anyone know the physiological explanation for reddening due to
nitrate deficiency?
--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
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Date: 24 Jan 2005 18:54:11
From: Robert Flory
Subject: Re: am I fertilizing too little for 4wpg?
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See the APD clip below
"Elaine T" <eethomp@nospam_pacbell.net > wrote in message
news:H3WId.14272$wZ2.2954@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Richard Sexton wrote:
>> In article <csui99$a1p$1@news.astound.net>,
>> Robert Flory <wyogeo@MORETHANWARMmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Elaine T" <eethomp@nospam_pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>>news:vlmId.13778> The red colors on your plants are from the light
>>>intensity. That's one
>>>
>>>>of the really fun results of high light intensity and good amounts of
>>>>iron. Spot algae is one that likes high light intensity, which is why
>>>>you're seeing it now. I'd actually try dropping the nitrate rather than
>>>>increasing because you have a lot of fish in the tank, but don't drop
>>>>the K.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually the reds may be a sign of nitrate deficiency, or so I recall
>>>seeing
>>
>>
>> Absolutely. Add nitrates and plants become more green. But red plants are
>> always red,
>> this isn't going to turn them all green, just a bit less red.
>>
>> Conversly you can redden up your plants for a picture by restricting
>> nitrate.
>>
>
> Interesting. There's a sound biological reason for what I said.
> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021026/bob8.asp explains it. Bright
> light causing anthocyanin production in plants has been well documented.
> Basically anthocyanins are reddish pigments that help protect a plant's
> photosynthetic mechanism from being burned out by too much light.
>
> Reddish aquarium plants like Hygrophila polysperma "sunset", Rotala
> indica, Rotala macrantha, Ludwigia spp., and many Crypts and swords do not
> display their reddish colors under inadequate light. It takes a lot of
> light for anthocyanin production to come into full swing, thus my reaction
> that the red was due to high lighting.
>
> Does anyone know the physiological explanation for reddening due to
> nitrate deficiency?
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
by Thomas Barr <tcbiii/earthlink.net >
Date: Sun, 13 2002
> Tom, at the risk of opening this thread again (and you know it's been
> running on the Sfbaaps list for years), I thought we found that red
> coloration was stimulated by stressing, limiting **either** N or P in
> the presense of an adaquate supply of K and the other nutrient.
Yep.
>
> In other words, running relatively high NO3 and strict limitation of P
> with the occasional PO4 "pulse" produced large, luscius red leaves in R.
> macrandra (I should note here that IME macrandra is sensitive to N and
> doesn't thrive in environments with more than about 10ppm or less than
> 3ppm).
>
> Reversing the proportions had a similar effect: relatively high PO4
> (above 2.0ppm!) and less than 1ppm of NO3 forced just about everything
> else in my aquarium that could turn red to do so.
This method gives the best color I've seen. But some plants respond
negatively to low NO3.
***Or*** is it that respond negatively to low NH4?
The NO3/NH4 dynamic cannot be ignored if we seek to understand and use this.
If the tank has a high enough snail, fish, shrimp etc population it will
increase the NH4 perhaps even to the point where little or certainly less
NO3 is needed.
In fact, the
> macrandra went blood-red, but of course the leaf size was stunted from
> lack of NO3.
I got great color at higher NO3(10ppm) and high PO4(1ppm). Could be the
harder water. We got the same lights, CO2, K+, test kits, etc. I also got
this in Marin. I recall it did not like the (too)low NO3 in the no fish
shrimp tank but did better out front with the higher fish load. Kinda wonder
how much of the NH4 vs NO3 is responsible. Well, that's the next question
now that we have somewhat of a handle on color:)
> Michael Rubin in San Francisco, where it looks like a good day for a
> middle-aged run ~
And hopefully not a middle aged pace:) A beach run with a soccer ball sounds
like order of the day for myself.
Regards,
Tom Barr
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