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Main
Date: 03 Jun 2006 14:44:06
From: IDzine01
Subject: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH?
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About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
(Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
I was hoping the gourami would grow used to the new pH but he's still
pale after a month. The rocks are holding up an embankment so if it's
just one rock that is the culpret I'd rather just remove the one rather
then the entire grouping.
We'll call this rock 1:
http://static.flickr.com/77/159533616_f8f5131e2a_o.jpg
Rock 2:
http://static.flickr.com/53/159533617_fa90333f8d_o.jpg
Rock 3: (one of several)
http://static.flickr.com/75/159533618_f46d99a14b_o.jpg
Thanks guys n gals. I know it's not really a 'plant' question but
you'all seem to know a lot about these aquascaping things.
Christie
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 00:28:38
From: LaieTechie
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH?
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I would set up 3 test tubs (gallon ice cream containers would do). Fill
them with water and let them set for at least 24 hours. Take the pH of
each. Now add a rock to each. Twenty-four hours later test the pH levels
again. Keep this up for a week. A calcium based rock (#3 is suspect)
will raise the pH.
ALWAYS do this procedure before adding _any_ rocks to your actual tanks.
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:44:06 -0700, IDzine01 wrote:
> We'll call this rock 1:
> http://static.flickr.com/77/159533616_f8f5131e2a_o.jpg
Looks like standard sandstone. Depending on the source it might be
calcium carbonate (such as coral sand) or granite (sand found in
mid-continent deserts).
> Rock 2:
> http://static.flickr.com/53/159533617_fa90333f8d_o.jpg
I can't identify this kind of rock, but definitely doesn't look calcium
based.
> Rock 3: (one of several)
> http://static.flickr.com/75/159533618_f46d99a14b_o.jpg
Definitely has a crystalline structure to it. I can't identify it.
HTH,
Laie Techie
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Date: 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02
From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:1u13929mtaql82k31pcvl1suuub3u410sd@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:04:53 -0500, "Koi-Lo" <None> wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small
>>fortune
>>for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice
>>plants in these display tanks.......... :(
>
> Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe
> algaecide.
No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight
online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out
there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the
effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to
where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is
still there.
> Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush
> algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3
> months.
The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn
white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then
it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are
looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves
are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do
add extra potassium but it makes no difference.
If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface
> agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light.
> Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get
> rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme
> ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the
> infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work.
I use Flourish Excel.
> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
> certain plants?
I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
> From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes
> up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than
> fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish
> keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to
> move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm
> trying to learn on the cheap as well :)
I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive
without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia,
Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I
suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks.
> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others
> have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse?
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 01:24:07
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô > wrote:
<snip >
>> Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe
>> algaecide.
>
>No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight
>online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out
>there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the
>effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to
>where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is
>still there.
I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
(different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless
you are already ordering other things at the time.
>> Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush
>> algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3
>> months.
>
>The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn
>white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then
>it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are
>looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves
>are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do
>add extra potassium but it makes no difference.
It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
(more likely).
wish I was more of an expert here. I'm telling you mostly what I've
read in books. I've had a similar infestation. It stopped by
adjusting light and increasing nutrients. But the old algae has not
yet fallen off. Since there's a lot of new, good growth, and I've
been wanting to revamp the aquascape anyway, I'm just going to rip out
and replant.
>If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface
>> agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light.
>> Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get
>> rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme
>> ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the
>> infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work.
>
>I use Flourish Excel.
I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
At least I've been reading conflicting things.
>> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
>> certain plants?
>
>I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
>them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
Isn't Murphy's law a bitch?
>> From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes
>> up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than
>> fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish
>> keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to
>> move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm
>> trying to learn on the cheap as well :)
>
>I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive
>without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia,
>Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I
>suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks.
sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on
experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants
adding just a few new experimental plants might work better? Even if
the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy
plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either
adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort.
>> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others
>> have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse?
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Date: 16 Jun 2006 21:48:04
From: dc
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
Jolly Fisherman <phishy1@email.net > wrote in
news:3jk692d03p71f7hut6n9f0q70mg8ke3t6e@4ax.com:
> I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
> (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on
display--it is pond season after all.
> It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
> still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
> (more likely).
The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the
edge in competing for the available nutrients.
>>I use Flourish Excel.
>
> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
Seachem's Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide; it is an organic carbon
compound (priily polycycloglutaracetal) which serves the same
function for plants. It skips an intermediate step filled by CO2 in the
process of photosynthesis to provide plants what they need to produce
long chain carbon compounds. When you use Excel, plants don't need to
use CO2 to photosynthesize.
>>> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe
>>> others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can
>>> endorse?
This is a good book--I sold a copy to a customer today, but if it is the
one I am thinking of it mainly tackles problems with ine algae.
While the conditions for avoiding algae in both situations are very
similar, there are some options available to you in fresh that are not
in salt and vice versa.
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 06:39:55
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:48:04 -0500, dc <jdoe@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Jolly Fisherman <phishy1@email.net> wrote in
>news:3jk692d03p71f7hut6n9f0q70mg8ke3t6e@4ax.com:
>
>> I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
>> (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
>
>We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on
>display--it is pond season after all.
Where is your shop?
>> It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
>> still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
>> (more likely).
>
>The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the
>edge in competing for the available nutrients.
What you're saying makes sense as that's how it generally works.
Actually I was almost directly quoting the Baensch Aquarium Atlas vol
2 under "Black Brush Algae." They stressed the importance of CO2 for
control of Black Brush Algae but not other types. So it seemed to me
like there was more to CO2 than just helping the plants to grow & out
compete the algae. But I may be putting too much weight on poor
wording in the book.
>>>I use Flourish Excel.
>>
>> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
>> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
>
>Seachem's Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide; it is an organic carbon
>compound (priily polycycloglutaracetal) which serves the same
>function for plants. It skips an intermediate step filled by CO2 in the
>process of photosynthesis to provide plants what they need to produce
>long chain carbon compounds. When you use Excel, plants don't need to
>use CO2 to photosynthesize.
Yes they are supposed to achieve the same thing but AFAIk they are not
really exact functional equivalents. AFAIK Polycycloglutaracetal is a
proprietary compound that is claimed to be similar but not identical
to natural Photosynthetic intermediates. I don't think it's well
known what exactly Polycycloglutaracetal is or even if it actually is,
in fact, directly taken up by the plants or if there is a more
indirect fertilization process at work. Even by Seachem's admission
"CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than Excel by
itself."
>>>> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe
>>>> others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can
>>>> endorse?
>
>This is a good book--I sold a copy to a customer today, but if it is the
>one I am thinking of it mainly tackles problems with ine algae.
>While the conditions for avoiding algae in both situations are very
>similar, there are some options available to you in fresh that are not
>in salt and vice versa.
Just got it in yesterday. I'm disappointed that it indeed mostly
deals with ine issues. An OK read anyway.
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 03:14:02
From: Köi-Lö
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
dc<jdoe@hotmail.com >wrote:
> Jolly Fisherman <phishy1@email.net> wrote in
> news:3jk692d03p71f7hut6n9f0q70mg8ke3t6e@4ax.com:
>
>> I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
>> (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
>
> We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on
> display--it is pond season after all.
Fucking liar. You're on welfare just like me.
>
>
>
>> It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
>> still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
>> (more likely).
>
> The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the
> edge in competing for the available nutrients.
How fucking stupid are you anyway? Idiot.
SNIP boring redundant post
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((* > ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06
From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:3jk692d03p71f7hut6n9f0q70mg8ke3t6e@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô> wrote:
>>No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight
>>online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out
>>there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the
>>effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back
>>to
>>where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is
>>still there.
> I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
> (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
> and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless
> you are already ordering other things at the time.
It's just not worth the expense. I tried what was suggested here and that
was enough expense for plants. :-) The plants that were doing well before
all these supplements are still doing well, in fact have improved somewhat
but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on the
tanks.
>>The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn
>>white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it.
>>Then
>>it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants
>>are
>>looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the
>>leaves
>>are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I
>>do
>>add extra potassium but it makes no difference.
>
> It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
> still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
> (more likely).
Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
water changes. I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
this time. I took down a 10g tank this week and hope to eliminate another
within a month. I also have two ponds out front and large 150g to 680g
tanks (above ground pools) of fish out back. I'm starting to feel
overwhelmed.... it's getting past being a hobby if you know what I mean.
:-) If I don't cut back somewhere I'll be needing to hire a day laborer
soon.
>>I use Flourish Excel.
> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them a
darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products but
then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.
>>> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
>>> certain plants?
>>
>>I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
>>them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
>
> Isn't Murphy's law a bitch?
YES!!!! :-D LOL!
>>I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive
>>without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia,
>>elodia,
>>Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I
>>suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks.
> sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on
> experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants
> adding just a few new experimental plants might work better?
That's kind of what I did. I added some "new" plants to cycled tanks that
were set up about 3 months. That was last winter. The plants in these new
setups (actually the tanks had been in an outbuilding for a few years) had
plants from a few established 10gs to get them started off. Then I bough
some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery.
Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from there
it's history. Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water
changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water wisteria
is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is
doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure.
Even if
> the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy
> plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either
> adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort.
Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding the
plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this evening
I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After all
is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call
them. :-)
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
|
| | | | | |
Date: 19 Jun 2006 22:04:06
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô > wrote:
<snip >
>but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
>additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on the
>tanks.
Perhaps its too much light?
<snip >
>Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
>water changes.
I'm not suggesting that.
> I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
>bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
>this time.
It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need-
missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are
the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification?
<snip >
>>>I use Flourish Excel.
>
>> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
>> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
>
>It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
>doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them a
>darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products but
>then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
>either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.
I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an
isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem
claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a
carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal
properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
Excel.
The iron in flourish is bound to gluconate, a carbohydrate. Seachem
claims this is an additional carbon source. It would seem it is also
accessible to bacteria and converted to sugars & CO2.
Basically these types of nutrients are beneficial to plants, but it's
easy to miss key nutrients or for them no not be as effective or
exactly as advertised IMHO.
>>>> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
>>>> certain plants?
>>>
>>>I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
>>>them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
Take a look at:
http://www.plantguild.com/html/spot_fertilization.html
http://www.plantguild.com/html/substrate_retrofiter.html
<snip >
>That's kind of what I did. I added some "new" plants to cycled tanks that
>were set up about 3 months. That was last winter. The plants in these new
>setups (actually the tanks had been in an outbuilding for a few years) had
>plants from a few established 10gs to get them started off. Then I bough
>some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery.
>Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from there
>it's history.
These were already cycled tanks (without plants). Perhaps biobugs are
out competing the plants as well.
>Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water
>changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water wisteria
>is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is
>doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure.
It might be damaged by such strong light with no real CO2.
>Even if
>> the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy
>> plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either
>> adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort.
>
>Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding the
>plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this evening
>I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After all
>is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call
>them. :-)
_how_ they are failing might give you useful information- if you still
care.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 23:25:58
From: Richard Sexton
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
In my tanks Excel is the kiss of death on algae of any kind. It's the only
thing I know of that can be called a safe algicide and not can't be called
an algicide at all according to the US govt.
It's not as good as co2 but it's impressively better than without. Expensive
and worth twice that if you're serious.
--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 22:15:34
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Richard Sexton" <richard@news.vrx.net > wrote in message
news:e7cki6$e3u$1@news.datemas.de...
> In my tanks Excel is the kiss of death on algae of any kind. It's the only
> thing I know of that can be called a safe algicide and not can't be called
> an algicide at all according to the US govt.
>
> It's not as good as co2 but it's impressively better than without.
> Expensive
> and worth twice that if you're serious.
=======================
Are you using it at the recommended rate or above? I'm using it as
recommended.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jun 2006 22:55:33
From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:5k5e92p691dm4q4i3uu1h05e6t4kitsprc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
>>additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on
>>the
>>tanks.
>
> Perhaps its too much light?
I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over a
standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
nutrients.
> <snip>
>
>>Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
>>water changes.
>
> I'm not suggesting that.
>
>> I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
>>bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
>>this time.
>
> It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need-
> missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are
> the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification?
No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing. The
sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
until they all but faded away in the 55s. Meanwhile sharing the same two
55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter. The giant
hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.
>>> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
>>> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
>>It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
>>doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them
>>a
>>darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products
>>but
>>then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
>>either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.
> I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an
> isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem
> claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a
> carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal
> properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
> I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
> Excel.
I'm not exceeding the recommended amount. I have been having very strange
die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the bottom.
:-
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jun 2006 13:57:30
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:33 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô > wrote:
>*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
>"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net> wrote in message
>news:5k5e92p691dm4q4i3uu1h05e6t4kitsprc@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
>>>additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on
>>>the
>>>tanks.
>>
>> Perhaps its too much light?
>
>I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over a
>standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
>nutrients.
I have a 55 gal tank with 2x65 watt compact fluorescent. It is far
too much for some of my more delicate low to mid light plants. I know
that sounds weird, as it's not really considered "a lot" of light.
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
>>>water changes.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting that.
>>
>>> I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
>>>bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
>>>this time.
>>
>> It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need-
>> missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are
>> the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification?
>
>No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
>extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing.
to the gravel? Swords need to absorb a lot of their nutrients from
their roots.
Again to say something that might seem weird about light- I have
swords that are a cross between the E. schlueteri & E. barthii. They
were absolutely devastated by obvious light damage from my mere 2.36
watts/gal without CO2. They are slowly recovering under partial dwarf
lily shade. I may be wrong but I think this light level is probably
border line when certain species start to require extra care and
perhaps CO2. But it depends on the species. Most swords are medium
light species which puts you about on target.
> The
>sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
>The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
>until they all but faded away in the 55s.
I assume you mean they got yellow & glassy & disintegrated. This
symptom, usually called iron chlorosis, can come from over or under
fertilization, potassium deficiency, high carbonate or total hardness
or pH over 7. Also look at Iron levels & perhaps Magnesium in the
supplements.
>Meanwhile sharing the same two
>55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
>hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter.
very hearty, easily adaptable plants
>The giant
>hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
>They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.
Giant hairgrass needs a very rich substrate & fertilization & probably
higher light.
>>>> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
>>>> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
>
>>>It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
>>>doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them
>>>a
>>>darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products
>>>but
>>>then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
>>>either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.
>
>> I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an
>> isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem
>> claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a
>> carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal
>> properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
>> I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
>> Excel.
>
>I'm not exceeding the recommended amount.
No no. I'm just voicing a little suspicion about a "carbon
fertilizer" derived from a disinfectant that is closely related to
formaldehyde.
>I have been having very strange
>die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
>wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the bottom.
>:-
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jun 2006 10:07:45
From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:c1uf92tefkt9h75dlub7norp12e7lkus22@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:33 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô> wrote:
>>I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over
>>a
>>standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
>>nutrients.
> I have a 55 gal tank with 2x65 watt compact fluorescent. It is far
> too much for some of my more delicate low to mid light plants. I know
> that sounds weird, as it's not really considered "a lot" of light.
When I added the extra light and nutrients the low-light plants really
perked up and started to grow faster and they turned a darker green. Many
of the new plants were *not* low-light plants.
>>No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
>>extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing.
> to the gravel? Swords need to absorb a lot of their nutrients from
> their roots.
That's not possible with granular Potash so I guess I'll have to let them
die. The small ones in the 10g are doing fine with it added to the water.
All the tanks have shallow gravel bottoms (around 1 1/4 to 1 1/2"). The
only difference is I don't vac the gravel in that 10 because of the baby
platys and Java moss on the bottom.
>> The
>>sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
>>The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
>>until they all but faded away in the 55s.
> I assume you mean they got yellow & glassy & disintegrated. This
> symptom, usually called iron chlorosis, can come from over or under
> fertilization, potassium deficiency, high carbonate or total hardness
> or pH over 7. Also look at Iron levels & perhaps Magnesium in the
> supplements.
The Swords started to look that way after some weeks passed, the sags even
sooner. The swords also have the Potash deficiency look, except the small
ones in the 10g platy tank. The high-light plants lost their color and all
are yellowing except my old favorites and the hair-grass being killed by
short black algae. Most high-light plants never rooted but rotted away at
the bottom and became water-borne. I have no test kits to measure all the
levels you mention. The cost here to take samples to a lab would be
prohibitive. And yes, the water is very alkaline. It varies with the
seasons from 7.5 to 8.+. The hardness goes off my test kit at 300
(calcium). I add a heaping tablespoon of Magnesium (Epsom Salts) with each
water change. I know our water is deficient in it.
>>Meanwhile sharing the same two
>>55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
>>hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter.
>
> very hearty, easily adaptable plants
They must be because I've had most of them for years. :-)
>>The giant
>>hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
>>They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.
> Giant hairgrass needs a very rich substrate & fertilization & probably
> higher light.
A change now would be too late I'm sure as there is no way to get the black
crud algae off it. All that gravel vacuuming I did may have harmed the
plants by removing the mulm with elements they needed. That's only a guess.
It sure made little difference in the "black-red" algae problem in the long
run. All the vacuuming and added lights and nutrients did was slow it to a
near stop while the other plants temporarily took off. Now it's growing and
spreading slowly again, probably because so many of the new plants have
stopped competing as they fade away.
........ It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
>>> I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
>>> Excel.
>>I'm not exceeding the recommended amount.
> No no. I'm just voicing a little suspicion about a "carbon
> fertilizer" derived from a disinfectant that is closely related to
> formaldehyde.
For all I know it may be totally useless and it was the added light and
mirconutrients that slowed the black-red algae and gave all the plants a
temporary boost. It sure smells funny.
>>I have been having very strange
>>die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
>>wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the
>>bottom.
>>:-
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 02:53:53
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
The plantguild PMDD mix, for example, has the potassium, magnesium, &
trace elements that can be made into pellets for the substrate. They
might also have a recipe for make potash pellets. Although they'd
probably recommend you buy one of their binding or extending powders.
I'm impressed at how brilliantly simple and inexpensive to hand
manufacture the Spot Fertilizing & power reactors seem to be. I'm
just starting with the power reactor, which is very efficient. I
don't know yet how effective or a PITA the fertilizer tool is. All I
know is I didn't want to waste the time trying to copy them. Using
them seems like enough of a PITA.
I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by
plants from Southeast Asia. It thrives in nitrate rich, hard,
alkaline water and with CO2 deficiency. It mainly attacks unhealthy
plants. It claims it is so tenacious that neither suction nor removal
by hand is possible without damaging plants. It recommends
Fertilization with iron & CO2, filtration through peat (to soften the
water & lower pH), replacing old fluorescent tubes & introducing algae
eaters.
So I wonder if your multiple aquaclears and hard, alkaline water are
partially to blame, along with a nutrient deficiency of these new
plants. I know you have taken steps to improve water chemistry &
supplementation. I guess adding driftwood to also alter chemistry is
not sufficient or desirable. Frankly I think DIY yeast CO2 is a PITA
& I agree that CO2 cylinders is prohibitive. I'd pick the brains of
someone over at plantguild for kicks. Even if you don't buy anything
from them, at least you have those Lilipon tabs. :-)
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 22:09:13
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:qkbh9290pvmovr502jlipnorcerb0p627n@4ax.com...
> I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
> Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by
> plants from Southeast Asia. It thrives in nitrate rich, hard,
> alkaline water and with CO2 deficiency. It mainly attacks unhealthy
> plants. It claims it is so tenacious that neither suction nor removal
> by hand is possible without damaging plants. It recommends
> Fertilization with iron & CO2, filtration through peat (to soften the
> water & lower pH), replacing old fluorescent tubes & introducing algae
> eaters.
That about says it all except with all the water changes and gravel
vacuuming I was doing I don't think the water was overly rich in nitrates
and phosphates. The rest sure does apply. :-(
> So I wonder if your multiple aquaclears and hard, alkaline water are
> partially to blame, along with a nutrient deficiency of these new
> plants. I know you have taken steps to improve water chemistry &
> supplementation. I guess adding driftwood to also alter chemistry is
> not sufficient or desirable.
I have a piece of driftwood in both 55s for the plecos. I talked it over
with my husband and decided to just stick with the plants that thrive under
our conditions and have for years. But you sure have been helpful
nonetheless. :-)
Frankly I think DIY yeast CO2 is a PITA
> & I agree that CO2 cylinders is prohibitive. I'd pick the brains of
> someone over at plantguild for kicks. Even if you don't buy anything
> from them, at least you have those Lilipon tabs. :-)
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 05:44:35
From: Jolly Fisherman
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:53:53 GMT, Jolly Fisherman <phishy1@email.net >
wrote:
>I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
>Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by
It also suggests that while you should add liquid fertilizers after
every water change it should not be done at the same time as
precipitating water conditioners. Instead one should wait a day or
two before adding the dosing. (if that helps)
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 22:12:04
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net > wrote in message
news:31nh9296fkpiqa82hjrvo6a5imddpu7scc@4ax.com...
> It also suggests that while you should add liquid fertilizers after
> every water change it should not be done at the same time as
> precipitating water conditioners. Instead one should wait a day or
> two before adding the dosing. (if that helps)
=======================
I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water conditioners"
means. I usually add them within an hour of a water change, then the Excel
every day - occasionally I forget and skip a day.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jun 2006 23:03:05
From: dc
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
"Koi-Lo" <¤?¤@ö½.Õ..Õ¢ > wrote in
news:4499fe66$0$580$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com:
> I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water
> conditioners" means. I usually add them within an hour of a water
> change, then the Excel every day - occasionally I forget and skip a
> day.
He means water conditioners that address things like heavy metals. I'm not
sure precipitate is the proper term to use as these metals are not actually
removed from the water solution as a solid but simply bonded to other
soluble chemicals into a non-toxic form. Some people believe these kinds
of water conditioners may remove trace elements beneficial to plants, which
they may.
I suspect even if they did the removal would not be complete when compared
to the amount you are adding to the water with fertilization. If there is
any waste your plants will still benefit from what is available during that
time rather than having to wait 48 hours for anything to be available if
you follow Jolly's recommendations.
I use Prime as a water conditioner; it is intended to be used in
conjunction with plant fertilizers. I don't know its specific effects on
the nutrients I add to my water, but my dosing schedule is complex so
whatever may be neutralized initially is quickly replenished anyway.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Jun 2006 00:15:38
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"dc" <jdoe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:Xns97EA85DE117jdoehotmailcom@216.196.97.131...
> "Koi-Lo" <¤?¤@ö½.Õ..Õ¢> wrote in
> news:4499fe66$0$580$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com:
>
>> I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water
>> conditioners" means. I usually add them within an hour of a water
>> change, then the Excel every day - occasionally I forget and skip a
>> day.
>
> He means water conditioners that address things like heavy metals. I'm
> not
> sure precipitate is the proper term to use as these metals are not
> actually
> removed from the water solution as a solid but simply bonded to other
> soluble chemicals into a non-toxic form. Some people believe these kinds
> of water conditioners may remove trace elements beneficial to plants,
> which
> they may.
I only use plain Sodium Thiosulfate so no problem there. I buy the crystals
and make a gallon at a time.
> I suspect even if they did the removal would not be complete when compared
> to the amount you are adding to the water with fertilization. If there is
> any waste your plants will still benefit from what is available during
> that
> time rather than having to wait 48 hours for anything to be available if
> you follow Jolly's recommendations.
I'll keep adding it an hour or so after the water changes. It's kind of a
habit now and so I wont forget. It's the last thing I do after putting
everything away for another 10 days to 2 weeks.
> I use Prime as a water conditioner; it is intended to be used in
> conjunction with plant fertilizers. I don't know its specific effects on
> the nutrients I add to my water, but my dosing schedule is complex so
> whatever may be neutralized initially is quickly replenished anyway.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jun 2006 01:52:25
From: Köi-Lö
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
Jolly Fisherman<phishy1@email.net >wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe
>>> algaecide.
>>
>>No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight
>>online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out
>>there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the
>>effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to
>>where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is
>>still there.
>
> I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally
> (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping
> and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless
> you are already ordering other things at the time.
Well, I don't know about all of that. I'm pretty much a stupid cunt
who doesn't know a whole lot.
>
>>> Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush
>>> algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3
>>> months.
>>
>>The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn
>>white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then
>>it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are
>>looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves
>>are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do
>>add extra potassium but it makes no difference.
>
> It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might
> still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants
> (more likely).
Choking? Are you threatening me? I have big dogs, you know.
>
> wish I was more of an expert here. I'm telling you mostly what I've
> read in books. I've had a similar infestation. It stopped by
> adjusting light and increasing nutrients. But the old algae has not
> yet fallen off. Since there's a lot of new, good growth, and I've
> been wanting to revamp the aquascape anyway, I'm just going to rip out
> and replant.
Rip out! I have notified Sgt. Pace. STALKER!
>
>>If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface
>>> agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light.
>>> Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get
>>> rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme
>>> ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the
>>> infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work.
>>
>>I use Flourish Excel.
>
> I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
> At least I've been reading conflicting things.
Are you a completely stupid fucker, or what?
>
>>> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
>>> certain plants?
>>
>>I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
>>them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
>
> Isn't Murphy's law a bitch?
YOU ARE A BITCH! I don't appreciate your goddamned profanity,
cocksucker.
>
>>> From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes
>>> up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than
>>> fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish
>>> keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to
>>> move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm
>>> trying to learn on the cheap as well :)
>>
>>I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive
>>without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia,
>>Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I
>>suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks.
>
> sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on
> experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants
> adding just a few new experimental plants might work better? Even if
> the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy
> plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either
> adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort.
You aren't worth the effort, so just fuck off, asshole.
>
>>> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others
>>> have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse?
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((* > ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Jun 2006 18:56:53
From: Köi-Lö
Subject: Re: Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
|
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö <¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô > wrote:
>*Note: There are five "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
>"Jolly Fisherman" <phishy1@email.net> wrote in message
>news:1u13929mtaql82k31pcvl1suuub3u410sd@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:04:53 -0500, "Koi-Lo" <None> wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small
>>>fortune
>>>for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice
>>>plants in these display tanks.......... :(
I am a cheap son of a bitch when it comes to buying stuff. If I can;t
shop lift it or get Randy to rip it off, I do without.
>>
>> Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe
>> algaecide.
>
No, randy keeps easting it as he is a mushroom and mushrooms like
straw bedding.
>No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight
>online when they add S&H charges.
Like I said I am a fucking cheap son of a bitch.
I can't afford to try everything out
>there.
No time to ploay with junk I have usenet groups to destroy
I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the
>effect wasn't long lasting.
Guess I should not have water it down. after all like I said I am a
cheap SOB.
After the initial "boost," things went back to
>where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is
>still there.
>
Only thing else in this area thats black is my well,mmmmmm I just as
soon not divulge that fuckup.
>> Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush
>> algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3
>> months.
I do not have 2 or 3 months to fool around. I may try pool chlorinator
tomorrow
>
>The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn
>white as I expected it to do.
I guess I shoud not have given the fish ajuana to eat inpoace of
veggies, huh?
The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then
>it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are
>looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves
>are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do
>add extra potassium but it makes no difference.
I think I may pull those ploants and feed em to RAndy tonight for a
salad. He is stupid and will not know it from Kale
>
>If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface
Only think I inject is heroin, can;t you tell........
>> agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light.
Only agitatin I do is nthe usenet groups
>> Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get
>> rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme
>> ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the
>> infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work.
Like I said, I'll pull it all and feed it to Randy
>
>I use Flourish Excel.
I use Trojans myself unless of course I give oral then I just
swallow...
>
>> Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
>> certain plants?
Guess we need to stop using the tanks for a toilet then.....
>
>I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do
>them. This is the busiest time of the year here.
I have too much to do with keeping the usenet in turmoil than fool
with these stupid plants.
>
>> From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes
>> up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than
>> fishkeeping.
Because I am such a dumbass
IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish
>> keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to
>> move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm
>> trying to learn on the cheap as well :)
I am just to stupid to comprehend all this crap
>
>I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive
>without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia,
>Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I
>suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks.
I need to quite the crypts and jion the bloods like Randy said we
should
>
>> I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others
>> have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse?
I just have to find someone to read it to me now as I am one
illiterate asshole. Look that word up in a dictionary and yu can see
my picture next to it, and if yuuy want to see what Randy looks like
look up the word Moron. or mushroom.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 17:39:43
From: IDzine01
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH? - pale fish
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>He almost looks emaciated. Is he eating? If you don't want to remove the
>new rocks can you move him to another aquarium?
He doesn't pig out like the females because he's usually guarding his
nest but he eats well daily. I could move him to another tank but I'm
not opposed to removing the rock that is causing the problem. He's the
main focus of the tank so I want to get him back into good health.
Koi-Lo wrote:
> *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
> "IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net> wrote in message
> news:1149371046.497219.256770@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
> > matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
> > gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
> >
> > Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
> >
> > http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
>
> He almost looks emaciated. Is he eating? If you don't want to remove the
> new rocks can you move him to another aquarium?
>
> > I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
> > photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
> > (Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
>
> Where did you get these stones? Are they from a pet store? If so they
> should be safe.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Aquarium FAQ are at:
> http://faq.thekrib.com/
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(=F6> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 09:08:41
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH? - bad rocks?
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*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net > wrote in message
news:1149381582.997197.23450@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>He almost looks emaciated. Is he eating? If you don't want to remove the
>new rocks can you move him to another aquarium?
He doesn't pig out like the females because he's usually guarding his
nest but he eats well daily.
* Have you considered he may just be growing old? Old fish often get that
"underweight" look. If he's young you can also try to give him a break from
breeding by removing the females - and see what happens. If he's the only
one of several fish affected then it's surely not one of the rocks.
I could move him to another tank but I'm
not opposed to removing the rock that is causing the problem. He's the
main focus of the tank so I want to get him back into good health.
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Rude, inane or obscene messages are not mine .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 17:51:22
From: Koi-Lo
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH? - pale fish
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*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net > wrote in message
news:1149371046.497219.256770@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
> matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
> gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
>
> Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
>
> http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
He almost looks emaciated. Is he eating? If you don't want to remove the
new rocks can you move him to another aquarium?
> I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
> photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
> (Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
Where did you get these stones? Are they from a pet store? If so they
should be safe.
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~~ }<((((* > ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 23:04:36
From: ~Roy the good old boy!
Subject: Re: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH? - pale fish
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An awfull lot of assumptions made by an inexperienced person that is
known to pass out bad info and make haphazzard guesses if she can not
find a copy / paste on another website that fits the need. I can buy
calcium based rocks at my LFS asshole, and its somethinmg I would not
put in a tank which I desire to have a low ph in...........Yet
another jerk that relies on a LFS giving good info out..duh!
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 17:51:22 -0500, "Koi-Lo" <None > wrote:
>><>*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>><>
>><>"IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net> wrote in message
>><>news:1149371046.497219.256770@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>><>> About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
>><>> matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
>><>> gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
>><>>
>><>> Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
>><>>
>><>> http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
>><>
>><>He almost looks emaciated. Is he eating? If you don't want to remove the
>><>new rocks can you move him to another aquarium?
>><>
>><>> I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
>><>> photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
>><>> (Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
>><>
>><>Where did you get these stones? Are they from a pet store? If so they
>><>should be safe.
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 22:31:38
From: ~Roy the good old boy!
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH?
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Evidently you added a rock that was calcium based for the ph to go so
high. Limestone will do that. Take the rocks and add a few drops of
vinegar on a clean spot on each one . If it fizzes thats the
culprit....Low PH makes calcium based subtances start to dissolve or
leech into the water raising the ph....
On 3 Jun 2006 14:44:06 -0700, "IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net >
wrote:
>><>About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
>><>matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
>><>gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
>><>
>><>Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
>><>
>><>http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
>><>
>><>I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
>><>photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
>><>(Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
>><>
>><>I was hoping the gourami would grow used to the new pH but he's still
>><>pale after a month. The rocks are holding up an embankment so if it's
>><>just one rock that is the culpret I'd rather just remove the one rather
>><>then the entire grouping.
>><>
>><>We'll call this rock 1:
>><>http://static.flickr.com/77/159533616_f8f5131e2a_o.jpg
>><>
>><>Rock 2:
>><>http://static.flickr.com/53/159533617_fa90333f8d_o.jpg
>><>
>><>Rock 3: (one of several)
>><>http://static.flickr.com/75/159533618_f46d99a14b_o.jpg
>><>
>><>Thanks guys n gals. I know it's not really a 'plant' question but
>><>you'all seem to know a lot about these aquascaping things.
>><>
>><>Christie
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 20:57:07
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Which Rock(s) Messed Up My pH?
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Invalid@Invalid.Invalid (~Roy the good old boy!) Spaketh Thusly:
>
>
>Evidently you added a rock that was calcium based for the ph to go so
>high. Limestone will do that. Take the rocks and add a few drops of
>vinegar on a clean spot on each one . If it fizzes thats the
>culprit....Low PH makes calcium based subtances start to dissolve or
>leech into the water raising the ph....
Sometimes it's hard to see the reaction with vinegar, if the above doesn't
work, try a stronger acid for the test. Muriatic (hydrochloric) is pretty
cheap and usually available at your local hardware or pool supply store. Or
steal a few drops from a car battery(sulfuric). It's not going in the tank,
remember, it's going on the rock out of the tank.
Or you could just pull them all, stabilize the water, and put them back one
type at a time.
I can't tell by just looking, but #2 appears to be the same as some of mine
that are OK. I'm leary of #3.
Let us know how you make out.
>On 3 Jun 2006 14:44:06 -0700, "IDzine01" <christie@nippyfish.net>
>wrote:
>>><>About a month ago I added three rocks (well, 2 large and several small
>>><>matching ones) to my aquarium and a few days later my male dwarf
>>><>gourami began to loose color, stop building nests and won't spawn.
>>><>
>>><>Here's his photo, he looks pathetic...
>>><>
>>><>http://static.flickr.com/59/159533615_457de25328_o.jpg
>>><>
>>><>I know NOTHING about identifying rocks and stones so I'm posting their
>>><>photos in hope that someone can tell me which one(s) altered my pH.
>>><>(Was 6.9 and is now 7.7)
>>><>
>>><>I was hoping the gourami would grow used to the new pH but he's still
>>><>pale after a month. The rocks are holding up an embankment so if it's
>>><>just one rock that is the culpret I'd rather just remove the one rather
>>><>then the entire grouping.
>>><>
>>><>We'll call this rock 1:
>>><>http://static.flickr.com/77/159533616_f8f5131e2a_o.jpg
>>><>
>>><>Rock 2:
>>><>http://static.flickr.com/53/159533617_fa90333f8d_o.jpg
>>><>
>>><>Rock 3: (one of several)
>>><>http://static.flickr.com/75/159533618_f46d99a14b_o.jpg
>>><>
>>><>Thanks guys n gals. I know it's not really a 'plant' question but
>>><>you'all seem to know a lot about these aquascaping things.
>>><>
>>><>Christie
--
Bill H. [my "reply to" address is real]
www.necka.net
Molon Labe!
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