Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

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Date: 27 Apr 2004 00:03:01
From: Squid
Subject: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
alternative to a Diatom Filter right?

Date: 27 Apr 2004 17:15:53
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Squid" <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:9p8r80dbftl8dc7hnq3ard5oslqva37j1o@4ax.com...
> I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
> sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
> Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
> rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
> alternative to a Diatom Filter right?
>

I was wrestling with the same decision recently. Just this past Friday I
ordered the H.O.T. Magnum Pro setup from Big Al's. Hasn't arrived yet, so I
have no experience with usage to offer, but for what its worth I'll tell you
why I went with it.

I was looking to replace an old whisper 20. I wanted
biological/chemical/mechanical filtration, and something to help with gravel
cleaning, and water polishing would be nice a nice plus. I started out
looking at the Emperor 280. Then considering that plus a Vortex. Finally the
HOT Magnum.
Extensive NG and web research showed all three having pretty positive
reveiws and comments, so I felt good about any of the three.
Since I was replacing my main filter and needed bio/chem/mech filtration, I
thought the Magnum was more cost effective for me. I have only one tank. I
have read that the micron filter does a decent job (not as good as Vortex)
but also read in several places about charging it with diatom powder (thanks
for the specifics Randy) and thought I could try that if I wan't satisfied
with the polishing by the cartidge alone.
I liked the Magnum's price, flexibility, the separate chemical media
cartridge (which is one reason I passed on the Emperor), and the Pro kit
added the Bio-Wheel ( and Big Als currently adding a free 3 pack of filter
sleeves).

If water polishing was my priy requirement, and I had a chem/bio filter
system I was happy with, or if I had multiple tanks, I might have gone for
the Vortex. But for one tank and looking to upgrade all my filtration the
Magnum won out.

Date: 27 Apr 2004 16:52:06
From: Jeff Lowe
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

Date: 27 Apr 2004 15:14:34
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

> "Squid" <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
>> sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
>> Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
>> rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
>> alternative to a Diatom Filter right?
>
> I use the H.O.T. magnum on my planted 55 with the micron cartridge
> 100% of the time. It keeps the water crystal clear and provides good
> circulation. I have several cartridges which I rotate weekly. Rinse
> the filter with a sprayer, soak overnight in oxyclean, rinse and then
> soak overnight in bleach, 10:1. Rinse again and then dry. I don't
> use any chemical filtration. I also have a 404 with just ceramic
> tubes and a couple bags of peat that gets changed every few months if
> I remember. Since getting this setup I have not touched my system 1
> diatomaceous filter.
> Jeff

Isn't that a bit overboard? Not to be a cynic, but I don't even worry about
using tap water and flopping it right back in, no sense in using bleach...
but oxyclean?? That's just creating more work for a hobby that is supposed
to reduce stress, not create MORE because OF the hobby...

Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure it won't work for
everyone... just as yours wouldn't work for me....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 27 Apr 2004 22:04:35
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"RedForeman ©®" <not@thisaddress.com > wrote in message
news:108tcek1epvhh50@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Squid" <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
> >> sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
> >> Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
> >> rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
> >> alternative to a Diatom Filter right?
> >
> > I use the H.O.T. magnum on my planted 55 with the micron cartridge
> > 100% of the time. It keeps the water crystal clear and provides good
> > circulation. I have several cartridges which I rotate weekly. Rinse
> > the filter with a sprayer, soak overnight in oxyclean, rinse and then
> > soak overnight in bleach, 10:1. Rinse again and then dry. I don't
> > use any chemical filtration. I also have a 404 with just ceramic
> > tubes and a couple bags of peat that gets changed every few months if
> > I remember. Since getting this setup I have not touched my system 1
> > diatomaceous filter.
> > Jeff
>
> Isn't that a bit overboard? Not to be a cynic, but I don't even worry
about
> using tap water and flopping it right back in, no sense in using bleach...
> but oxyclean?? That's just creating more work for a hobby that is
supposed
> to reduce stress, not create MORE because OF the hobby...
>
> Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure it won't work for
> everyone... just as yours wouldn't work for me....
>
> --
>

i wouldn't bother with the oxyclean but I do bleach my micro filter.

Rick

Date: 28 Apr 2004 15:26:08
From: Jeff Lowe
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net > wrote in message
news:naFjc.2896$r9.6275@news1.mts.net...
>
> "RedForeman ©®" <not@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
> news:108tcek1epvhh50@corp.supernews.com...
> > > "Squid" <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
> > >> sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
> > >> Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
> > >> rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
> > >> alternative to a Diatom Filter right?
> > >
> > > I use the H.O.T. magnum on my planted 55 with the micron cartridge
> > > 100% of the time. It keeps the water crystal clear and provides good
> > > circulation. I have several cartridges which I rotate weekly. Rinse
> > > the filter with a sprayer, soak overnight in oxyclean, rinse and then
> > > soak overnight in bleach, 10:1. Rinse again and then dry. I don't
> > > use any chemical filtration. I also have a 404 with just ceramic
> > > tubes and a couple bags of peat that gets changed every few months if
> > > I remember. Since getting this setup I have not touched my system 1
> > > diatomaceous filter.
> > > Jeff
> > Isn't that a bit overboard? Not to be a cynic, but I don't even worry
> about
> > using tap water and flopping it right back in, no sense in using
bleach...
> > but oxyclean?? That's just creating more work for a hobby that is
> supposed to reduce stress, not create MORE because OF the hobby...
> >
> > Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure it won't work for
> > everyone... just as yours wouldn't work for me....
> i wouldn't bother with the oxyclean but I do bleach my micro filter.

I was in a hurry one day and did not want to wait for the chlorine to clear
so I tried oxy instead. It is amazing the tarry brown goo that bubbles off
the filter. Probably don't need to do it, but as far as work goes, it's just
a couple of buckets out in the laundry room. Fill them with either bleach or
oxy, takes at most two minutes, then walk away.
Jeff

Date: 28 Apr 2004 16:30:47
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Jeff Lowe" <jalowe44.del.ete.this@hotmail..com.invaid > wrote in message
news:k2Qjc.33183$eK3.27029@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...

> I was in a hurry one day and did not want to wait for the chlorine to
clear
> so I tried oxy instead. It is amazing the tarry brown goo that bubbles off
> the filter. Probably don't need to do it, but as far as work goes, it's
just
> a couple of buckets out in the laundry room. Fill them with either bleach
or
> oxy, takes at most two minutes, then walk away.
> Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Is that just the regular powdered Oxi Clean, any particular strength?
Just curious, as I have ordered a HOT Magnum coming in this week, and I'm
just trying to keep notes about the various tips for making use of it.
Thanks!

Date: 28 Apr 2004 17:09:50
From: Jeff Lowe
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:X_Qjc.13667$gH6.5136@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Jeff Lowe" <jalowe44.del.ete.this@hotmail..com.invaid> wrote in message
> news:k2Qjc.33183$eK3.27029@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
>
> > I was in a hurry one day and did not want to wait for the chlorine to
> clear
> > so I tried oxy instead. It is amazing the tarry brown goo that bubbles
off
> > the filter. Probably don't need to do it, but as far as work goes, it's
> just
> > a couple of buckets out in the laundry room. Fill them with either
bleach
> or
> > oxy, takes at most two minutes, then walk away.
> > Jeff
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Is that just the regular powdered Oxi Clean, any particular strength?
> Just curious, as I have ordered a HOT Magnum coming in this week, and I'm
> just trying to keep notes about the various tips for making use of it.
> Thanks!

Regular Oxyclean, or it's generic equivalents. One scoop to half a gallon
hot water. Use something heavy to hold the filter down. A friend left half a
six pack of Budweiser long necks behind and I find them ideal for this task.
;-)
None of this really gets the filter back to white, but I don't think it
matters. I tried this because I'd read that oxy is fairly benign and I could
never seem to rinse all the Clorox out. I've since learned no moisture, no
chlorine so let the filter dry out completely.
Jeff

Date: 29 Apr 2004 22:58:50
From: Graham Broadbridge
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Jeff Lowe" <jalowe44.del.ete.this@hotmail..com.invaid > wrote in message
news:yzRjc.33195$eK3.4679@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> None of this really gets the filter back to white, but I don't think it
> matters. I tried this because I'd read that oxy is fairly benign and I
could
> never seem to rinse all the Clorox out. I've since learned no moisture, no
> chlorine so let the filter dry out completely.

It's amazing how much of that simple information gets left behind in the
never ending parade of new products that promise all sorts of magic.

No moisture == no chlorine, also sunlight kills chlorine even on damp things
left in full sunlight - that's why you have to add chlorine to pools every
day during summer, the ultraviolet kills it.

How many folks out there buy expensive tubes of pHup when Baking soda does
the same job better :-)

Graham.

Date: 29 Apr 2004 15:51:33
From: Squid
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:58:50 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
<grahamb@peachy.org > wrote:
>How many folks out there buy expensive tubes of pHup when Baking soda does
>the same job better :-)
>
>
>Graham.
>

I've read a few things about this in the archives. Do you mind
ellaborating on the process a bit. Like how much per gallon?

Date: 01 May 2004 22:01:10
From: Graham Broadbridge
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Squid" <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:f292905ic54fi9vcf6q0ornv7q3nvh3o7g@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:58:50 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
> <grahamb@peachy.org> wrote:
> >How many folks out there buy expensive tubes of pHup when Baking soda
does
> >the same job better :-)
>
> I've read a few things about this in the archives. Do you mind
> ellaborating on the process a bit. Like how much per gallon?

A little bit goes a long way. From memory 1 teaspoon of baking soda
(sodium bicarbonate) raises the kH of my 55 gal by about 2 german degrees (~
36 ppm).

I use quite a lot as the water here out of the tap is 0 dkH and I run CO2
injection and need to keep around 8 dkH, so for each 25 percent water change
I add a teaspoon or so, and then measure and adjust as necessary.

Graham.

Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:07:29
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:58:50 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
> <grahamb@peachy.org> wrote:
>> How many folks out there buy expensive tubes of pHup when Baking
>> soda does the same job better :-)
>>
>> Graham.
>
> I've read a few things about this in the archives. Do you mind
> ellaborating on the process a bit. Like how much per gallon?

In my 29g, it's CO2 injected, starts about 7.0, and I run 15-22ppm of CO2,
the CO2 brings down the pH to 6.0, I add 1 teaspoon of BS and get it back to
7.0, hardness started out at 2, raises to 4-5 when done.. it's really the
better product to use, IMO...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 29 Apr 2004 16:15:10
From: Squid
Subject: Re: Baking Soda for Ph Adjustment

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:07:29 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
<not@thisaddress.com > wrote:

>In my 29g, it's CO2 injected, starts about 7.0, and I run 15-22ppm of CO2,
>the CO2 brings down the pH to 6.0, I add 1 teaspoon of BS and get it back to
>7.0, hardness started out at 2, raises to 4-5 when done.. it's really the
>better product to use, IMO...

So you add it straight to the tank?

Does it just neutralize the Ph to 7.0 or always raises it. My Ph is at
about 7.4 right now and I would like to get it back to 7.0

Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:45:58
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Baking Soda for Ph Adjustment

>> In my 29g, it's CO2 injected, starts about 7.0, and I run 15-22ppm
>> of CO2, the CO2 brings down the pH to 6.0, I add 1 teaspoon of BS
>> and get it back to
>> 7.0, hardness started out at 2, raises to 4-5 when done.. it's
>> really the better product to use, IMO...
>
> So you add it straight to the tank?

I add it when doing water changes... I add the BS to the water going back
into the tank, and I add it slowly...

> Does it just neutralize the Ph to 7.0 or always raises it. My Ph is at
> about 7.4 right now and I would like to get it back to 7.0

It raises your gH(buffer) and your pH comes UP with it, not down...read BS
goes UP, not down. If you're starting with a 7.4 and you want it to be 7.0,
add some driftwood or CO2, and it'll come down...

Unless there is a reason you want the water at 7.0, I wouldn't bugger with
anything special... your fish will adapt, and if you're getting the fish
from a local LFS, you'll be fine with it.. get some soft, acidic water
loving fish, and you'll be in trouble...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 29 Apr 2004 17:16:43
From: Jeff Lowe
Subject: Re: Baking Soda for Ph Adjustment

"RedForeman ©®" <not@thisaddress.com > wrote in message
news:1092cfu6r50rgf6@corp.supernews.com...
> >> In my 29g, it's CO2 injected, starts about 7.0, and I run 15-22ppm
> >> of CO2, the CO2 brings down the pH to 6.0, I add 1 teaspoon of BS
> >> and get it back to
> >> 7.0, hardness started out at 2, raises to 4-5 when done.. it's
> >> really the better product to use, IMO...
> >
> > So you add it straight to the tank?
>
> I add it when doing water changes... I add the BS to the water going back
> into the tank, and I add it slowly...
>
> > Does it just neutralize the Ph to 7.0 or always raises it. My Ph is at
> > about 7.4 right now and I would like to get it back to 7.0
>
> It raises your gH(buffer) and your pH comes UP with it, not down...read BS
> goes UP, not down. If you're starting with a 7.4 and you want it to be
7.0,
> add some driftwood or CO2, and it'll come down...
>
> Unless there is a reason you want the water at 7.0, I wouldn't bugger with
> anything special... your fish will adapt, and if you're getting the fish
> from a local LFS, you'll be fine with it.. get some soft, acidic water
> loving fish, and you'll be in trouble...

Small typo: It raises Kh (Carbonate Hardness ....Germans.....) since it is
sodium bicarbonate, and does not change Gh. Limestone or coral will raise
both. Some folks don't like the idea of adding sodium, but other folks add
salt.... go figure. Use some peat or water softener pillows to drop the Ph
some, or don't worry about it, 7.4 to 7.0 is not much of a change. Just stay
away from the Ph Down products that are phosphoric acid as they are likely
to cause an algae bloom.
Worry less, enjoy more.
Jeff

Date: 29 Apr 2004 13:21:02
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Baking Soda for Ph Adjustment

> Small typo: It raises Kh (Carbonate Hardness ....Germans.....)

ooops... my bad Jeff, thanks for catching it...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:51:28
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Baking Soda for Ph Adjustment

IIRC, adding Reverse Osmosis water will lower the pH, and gH, and if you're
wanting to move from 7.4 to 7.0 that would help you do it, but in what
mixture, I'm not sure
--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 28 Apr 2004 14:21:12
From: RedForeman ©®
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

>>> I was in a hurry one day and did not want to wait for the chlorine
>>> to clear so I tried oxy instead. It is amazing the tarry brown goo
>>> that bubbles off the filter. Probably don't need to do it, but as
>>> far as work goes, it's just a couple of buckets out in the laundry
>>> room. Fill them with either bleach or oxy, takes at most two
>>> minutes, then walk away.
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>> Is that just the regular powdered Oxi Clean, any particular strength?
>> Just curious, as I have ordered a HOT Magnum coming in this week,
>> and I'm just trying to keep notes about the various tips for making
>> use of it. Thanks!
>
> Regular Oxyclean, or it's generic equivalents. One scoop to half a
> gallon hot water. Use something heavy to hold the filter down. A
> friend left half a six pack of Budweiser long necks behind and I find
> them ideal for this task. ;-)
> None of this really gets the filter back to white, but I don't think
> it matters. I tried this because I'd read that oxy is fairly benign
> and I could never seem to rinse all the Clorox out. I've since
> learned no moisture, no chlorine so let the filter dry out completely.
> Jeff

Ok, I've learned a bit today... I'll see if the oxyclean has any advantage
over tap water :-) jk

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø

is that better??

Date: 27 Apr 2004 10:59:03
From: Toni
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

Date: 27 Apr 2004 01:08:11
From: Randy Ocano
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

Squid <tentacle_joe@noSPAMyahoo.com > wrote:

>I was thinking about getting a Diatom Filter and got a little
>sidetracked by the H.O.T. Magnum which I guess comes with a Micron
>Cartridge that polishes the water. Considering the H.O.T. is priced
>rather low I was wondering what you guys thought of that as an
>alternative to a Diatom Filter right?

I've been using a HOT Magnum for years for just polishing.The micron
cartridge generally does a good job but on rare occasions I charge it
with diatom powder. I doubt if ineland recommends this or if it
would void your warranty but it seemed to work fine. Haven't touched
either of my vortex filters since I've started using the HOT Magnum.
To charge the filter you'll need two input tubes, one for the input
and the other for the output. Place the filter in the tank and
submerge a small plastic pitcher and bring it up with the input and
exhaust tubes in it. I then slowly dump a cup of diatom powder in it.

Date: 01 May 2004 10:45:30
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Randy Ocano" <rocano@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ftbr80pf2qk7qs6s4qvp55andhvh59h6fq@4ax.com...
> I've been using a HOT Magnum for years for just polishing.The micron
> cartridge generally does a good job but on rare occasions I charge it
> with diatom powder. I doubt if ineland recommends this or if it
> would void your warranty but it seemed to work fine. Haven't touched
> either of my vortex filters since I've started using the HOT Magnum.
> To charge the filter you'll need two input tubes, one for the input
> and the other for the output. Place the filter in the tank and
> submerge a small plastic pitcher and bring it up with the input and
> exhaust tubes in it. I then slowly dump a cup of diatom powder in it.

Just received my HOT Magnum yesterday. ineland now includes an
instruction sheet for charging and using the micron filter with diatom
powder. So I woudn't think there will be any warranty issues :-)
Instuctions are basically as you describe.

Date: 04 May 2004 10:05:44
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:edLkc.916$a47.427@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Randy Ocano" <rocano@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ftbr80pf2qk7qs6s4qvp55andhvh59h6fq@4ax.com...
> > I've been using a HOT Magnum for years for just polishing.The micron
> > cartridge generally does a good job but on rare occasions I charge it
> > with diatom powder. I doubt if ineland recommends this or if it
> > would void your warranty but it seemed to work fine. Haven't touched
> > either of my vortex filters since I've started using the HOT Magnum.
> > To charge the filter you'll need two input tubes, one for the input
> > and the other for the output. Place the filter in the tank and
> > submerge a small plastic pitcher and bring it up with the input and
> > exhaust tubes in it. I then slowly dump a cup of diatom powder in it.
>
> Just received my HOT Magnum yesterday. ineland now includes an
> instruction sheet for charging and using the micron filter with diatom
> powder. So I woudn't think there will be any warranty issues :-)
> Instuctions are basically as you describe.
>
>

Interesting, I just picked up my 3rd H.O.T Magnum yesterday to replace the
2nd one that would not seal properly. There is absolutely nothing in the
instructions of mine to tell you how to use it with diatom powder.

Rick

Date: 04 May 2004 18:02:07
From: GloFish
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

On Tue, 4 May 2004 10:05:44 -0500, "Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net >
wrote:

>
>"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com> wrote in message
>news:edLkc.916$a47.427@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> "Randy Ocano" <rocano@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:ftbr80pf2qk7qs6s4qvp55andhvh59h6fq@4ax.com...
>> > I've been using a HOT Magnum for years for just polishing.The micron
>> > cartridge generally does a good job but on rare occasions I charge it
>> > with diatom powder. I doubt if ineland recommends this or if it
>> > would void your warranty but it seemed to work fine. Haven't touched
>> > either of my vortex filters since I've started using the HOT Magnum.
>> > To charge the filter you'll need two input tubes, one for the input
>> > and the other for the output. Place the filter in the tank and
>> > submerge a small plastic pitcher and bring it up with the input and
>> > exhaust tubes in it. I then slowly dump a cup of diatom powder in it.
>>
>> Just received my HOT Magnum yesterday. ineland now includes an
>> instruction sheet for charging and using the micron filter with diatom
>> powder. So I woudn't think there will be any warranty issues :-)
>> Instuctions are basically as you describe.
>>
>>
>
>Interesting, I just picked up my 3rd H.O.T Magnum yesterday to replace the
>2nd one that would not seal properly. There is absolutely nothing in the
>instructions of mine to tell you how to use it with diatom powder.
>
>Rick
>

I just got a stand-alone canister Magnum 350, and there is nothing in
there about it either.

After reading the previous posting, I also visited inLand's
website, and their downloadable manual doesn't contain the
instructions, either.

FWIW....

--Tony

Date: 04 May 2004 22:48:22
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

> >Interesting, I just picked up my 3rd H.O.T Magnum yesterday to replace
the
> >2nd one that would not seal properly. There is absolutely nothing in the
> >instructions of mine to tell you how to use it with diatom powder.
> >
> >Rick
> >
>
>
> I just got a stand-alone canister Magnum 350, and there is nothing in
> there about it either.
>
> After reading the previous posting, I also visited inLand's
> website, and their downloadable manual doesn't contain the
> instructions, either.
>
> FWIW....
>
>
> --Tony

The instructions are on a separate piece of paper (not in the manual). It
may have come with the Micron cartridge (it is titled "Instructions for
Micron Cartridge" on the front side). I purchased the "HOT pro" kit with
gravel vac, etc.
On the flip side it has directions for charging with diatom powder, a fast
method (simply pouring into the canister) and a better method, charging with
a container until the recirculated watrer is clear.

At the bottom of the slip are the numbers "004696", and perhaps a date
"10/97". It does have the ineland logo and address on the slip.
Perhaps it is just something that comes with the Pro kits? I also ordered an
extra cartridge, an honestly I do not recall if the slip was packaged with
the kit or with the second separate cartridge.
--Tom

Date: 05 May 2004 12:24:55
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:W4Vlc.4990$8S1.1814@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > >Interesting, I just picked up my 3rd H.O.T Magnum yesterday to replace
> the
> > >2nd one that would not seal properly. There is absolutely nothing in
the
> > >instructions of mine to tell you how to use it with diatom powder.
> > >
> > >Rick
> > >
> >
> >
> > I just got a stand-alone canister Magnum 350, and there is nothing in
> > there about it either.
> >
> > After reading the previous posting, I also visited inLand's
> > website, and their downloadable manual doesn't contain the
> > instructions, either.
> >
> > FWIW....
> >
> >
> > --Tony
>
> The instructions are on a separate piece of paper (not in the manual). It
> may have come with the Micron cartridge (it is titled "Instructions for
> Micron Cartridge" on the front side). I purchased the "HOT pro" kit with
> gravel vac, etc.
> On the flip side it has directions for charging with diatom powder, a fast
> method (simply pouring into the canister) and a better method, charging
with
> a container until the recirculated watrer is clear.
>
> At the bottom of the slip are the numbers "004696", and perhaps a date
> "10/97". It does have the ineland logo and address on the slip.
> Perhaps it is just something that comes with the Pro kits? I also ordered
an
> extra cartridge, an honestly I do not recall if the slip was packaged with
> the kit or with the second separate cartridge.
> --Tom
>
>
>

that is interesting Tom. I just checked the paper that was wrapped around my
Micron Cartridge and there is no such information. As a coincidence I have
been swapping emails with one of their Customer Service Rep's. over problems
I was having with my H.O.T unit and asked him about it. His reply was that
if you have a filter that has those instructions in it then it is old and I
mean old stock. According to him they stopped including those instructions
10 years ago when it became known that diatom powder was a carcinogen in
airborne state.

Rick

Date: 06 May 2004 00:15:08
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net > wrote in message
news:8r9mc.10810$r9.25334@news1.mts.net...
>
> that is interesting Tom. I just checked the paper that was wrapped around
my
> Micron Cartridge and there is no such information. As a coincidence I have
> been swapping emails with one of their Customer Service Rep's. over
problems
> I was having with my H.O.T unit and asked him about it. His reply was that
> if you have a filter that has those instructions in it then it is old and
I
> mean old stock. According to him they stopped including those instructions
> 10 years ago when it became known that diatom powder was a carcinogen in
> airborne state.
>
> Rick

Well, thats interesting....!
I just ordered this from Big Al's. I suppose it could be old stock, but I
would think that would be more likely to happen if I was buying from an LFS
that didn't see much turn over, not from a mail order site like Big Al's.
The box the Magnum came in has ©2002 on it, so I think that must be fairly
recent. The filter I can't tell, but certainly the packaging appears recent.
How reliable is your Rep? How long has he been with ineland? Perhaps he
thought you were trying to make a case for choosing a diatom filter over a
Magnum and just tried to dissuade you?
Who knows. Certainly alot of diatom filters on the ket, and the media
readily available. Seems odd for ineland to take such a
'carcinogen...don't use it' stance. I may contact Big Als and see what they
have to say.
Well, I have no plans at this point to use diatom powder, but I do have the
instructions if I ever feel the need :-) The micron cartridge worked very
well. My biggest gripe is with the micro bubbles the Magnum puts out. The
water LOOKS cloudy but it's not. Turn off the magnum for a while and it
looks great. The micro bubbles are spewing continuously. Trying to reset the
seals and use silicon lube, 'burping', etc. no luck yet.

Date: 05 May 2004 20:40:39
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:gsfmc.6492$a47.371@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net> wrote in message
> news:8r9mc.10810$r9.25334@news1.mts.net...
>>
> Well, thats interesting....!
> I just ordered this from Big Al's. I suppose it could be old stock, but I
> would think that would be more likely to happen if I was buying from an
LFS
> that didn't see much turn over, not from a mail order site like Big Al's.
> The box the Magnum came in has ©2002 on it, so I think that must be fairly
> recent. The filter I can't tell, but certainly the packaging appears
recent.
> How reliable is your Rep? How long has he been with ineland? Perhaps he
> thought you were trying to make a case for choosing a diatom filter over a
> Magnum and just tried to dissuade you?
> Who knows. Certainly alot of diatom filters on the ket, and the media
> readily available. Seems odd for ineland to take such a
> 'carcinogen...don't use it' stance. I may contact Big Als and see what
they
> have to say.
> Well, I have no plans at this point to use diatom powder, but I do have
the
> instructions if I ever feel the need :-) The micron cartridge worked very
> well. My biggest gripe is with the micro bubbles the Magnum puts out. The
> water LOOKS cloudy but it's not. Turn off the magnum for a while and it
> looks great. The micro bubbles are spewing continuously. Trying to reset
the
> seals and use silicon lube, 'burping', etc. no luck yet.
>
>

I know nothing about the guy except he answered by query to the Company.
This is my 3rd H.O.T Magnum. I also get the small bubbles however my problem
with the other two was the unit purging the water from inside the filter
only leaving about half and this then causes noisy operation and lots of big
bubbles. Pain in the neck. The silicone did not work for me however I did
get a laugh when the "Rep" suggested in a previous exchange that I use the
small tube and if that was not enough to buy more at the Hardware store and
use copious quantities. He said that the problem is the D ring which does
not seal properly. I told him that if I had to use copious quantities of
silicone then I would suggest they have a manufacturing defect in their
product. The new one works fine with the exception of the small bubbles.
Here is his rely to my query.

Hi Rick,

Glad to hear that you got the issue resolved at the store. Regarding the
use of Diatom Powder, this is something that has been used in the hobby for
quite some time. We used to include it with our Magnums until we discovered
that diatom powder is a carcinogen in an airborne state. This stuff is known
to cause cancer. For that reason we stopped recommending its use. The micron
cartridge by itself can filter out particles as small as 4 micron. With the
use of diatom powder I think it brings that number down to 2 micron, not
that much difference really when referring to such a small particle size.
If you do choose to use diatom powder, simply hang the Hot Magnum on the
tank. Take a small container, such as a milk jug with the top cut off, to
isolate the intake and return tube. With the container full of water and the
tubes isolated, turn the filter on and add an amount of diatom powder to the
small container. The filter will continue to circulate the water inside this
small container. Allow it to run until the water appears to be clear again.
All of the powder is now going to be attached to the micron cartridge.
Simply lower the small container to introduce the intake and return tubes
back into the tank. Do not turn the filter off, as this may cause an amount
of diatom powder to loosen up and shoot back into the tank when its turned
on again which may have an adverse effect on the fish.
Is sounds to me like the person on line had gotten a hold of some older
stock if he had found instructions regarding diatom powder in the manual. We
have not recommend this stuff for at least 10 years. I hope this is some
helpful information. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further
questions or concerns.

Thank you,

Matt Bennett
ineland Customer Service
1-800-322-1266 x4474
BENNETT@INELAND.COM

Date: 06 May 2004 02:41:28
From: TR
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net > wrote in message
news:SHgmc.11238$r9.26483@news1.mts.net...
> I know nothing about the guy except he answered by query to the Company.
> This is my 3rd H.O.T Magnum. I also get the small bubbles however my
problem
> with the other two was the unit purging the water from inside the filter
> only leaving about half and this then causes noisy operation and lots of
big
> bubbles. Pain in the neck. The silicone did not work for me however I did
> get a laugh when the "Rep" suggested in a previous exchange that I use
the
> small tube and if that was not enough to buy more at the Hardware store
and
> use copious quantities. He said that the problem is the D ring which does
> not seal properly. I told him that if I had to use copious quantities of
> silicone then I would suggest they have a manufacturing defect in their
> product. The new one works fine with the exception of the small bubbles.

Hmmm, thats disappointing to hear about your bubble problem, and lack of
solution. If it wasn't for that myself, I'd be thinking I have found the
perfect filter. It really irks me that the tank is actually quite clean, but
looks so cloudy due to the bubbles. If I can't resolve it, I'll be buying
another filter (shhh, don't tell my wife), maybe a rena Filstar 204 or
something similar. I'll keep the magnum for its ease of use and micron
filtering, but not as my priy filter. I've lubed the D ring, and the
inlet o-rings, so far not enough to make an improvement. It also bothers me
that the D-ring seats in a channel on the LID of the unit, rather than in a
channel on the canister. Heck, if you don't have a lot of silicone lube on
the D-ring its likely to fall out as you try to place the top back on the
canister. Seems like the channel ought to be on the canister.
I think the Magnum has a lot going for it, but a few design quirks keep it
from being as good as it could be, IMHO.

Date: 06 May 2004 11:24:33
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:sBhmc.6645$a47.2401@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net> wrote in message
> news:SHgmc.11238$r9.26483@news1.mts.net...
> > I know nothing about the guy except he answered by query to the Company.
> > This is my 3rd H.O.T Magnum. I also get the small bubbles however my
> problem
> > with the other two was the unit purging the water from inside the filter
> > only leaving about half and this then causes noisy operation and lots of
> big
> > bubbles. Pain in the neck. The silicone did not work for me however I
did
> > get a laugh when the "Rep" suggested in a previous exchange that I use
> the
> > small tube and if that was not enough to buy more at the Hardware store
> and
> > use copious quantities. He said that the problem is the D ring which
does
> > not seal properly. I told him that if I had to use copious quantities
of
> > silicone then I would suggest they have a manufacturing defect in their
> > product. The new one works fine with the exception of the small bubbles.
>
> Hmmm, thats disappointing to hear about your bubble problem, and lack of
> solution. If it wasn't for that myself, I'd be thinking I have found the
> perfect filter. It really irks me that the tank is actually quite clean,
but
> looks so cloudy due to the bubbles. If I can't resolve it, I'll be buying
> another filter (shhh, don't tell my wife), maybe a rena Filstar 204 or
> something similar. I'll keep the magnum for its ease of use and micron
> filtering, but not as my priy filter. I've lubed the D ring, and the
> inlet o-rings, so far not enough to make an improvement. It also bothers
me
> that the D-ring seats in a channel on the LID of the unit, rather than in
a
> channel on the canister. Heck, if you don't have a lot of silicone lube on
> the D-ring its likely to fall out as you try to place the top back on the
> canister. Seems like the channel ought to be on the canister.
> I think the Magnum has a lot going for it, but a few design quirks keep it
> from being as good as it could be, IMHO.
>
>

yeah I agree. My D ring constantly falls out when putting this thing
together. They are handy though and easy to move from tank to tank. I
borrowed a System 1 diatom filter from a friend and this little unit is
amazing. Much easier to use than a Vortex. Hangs on the tank and can be
easily moved from tank to tank. I had quite a bit of free floating algae in
my 77 heavily planted tank. Hooked this think up and it was amazing how
clear the water was within an hour. The next day I used it in my fish room.
Charged it with 5 tbls of diatom powder and did 10 x 10g tanks using the
same charge. Nice little unit.

Rick

Date: 06 May 2004 16:56:49
From: GloFish
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

On Thu, 6 May 2004 11:24:33 -0500, "Rick" <rick703NOSPAM@mts.net >
wrote:

<lots of snip >

>> Hmmm, thats disappointing to hear about your bubble problem, and lack of
>> solution. If it wasn't for that myself, I'd be thinking I have found the
>> perfect filter. It really irks me that the tank is actually quite clean,
>but
>> looks so cloudy due to the bubbles. If I can't resolve it, I'll be buying
>> another filter (shhh, don't tell my wife), maybe a rena Filstar 204 or
>> something similar. I'll keep the magnum for its ease of use and micron
>> filtering, but not as my priy filter. I've lubed the D ring, and the
>> inlet o-rings, so far not enough to make an improvement. It also bothers
>me
>> that the D-ring seats in a channel on the LID of the unit, rather than in
>a
>> channel on the canister. Heck, if you don't have a lot of silicone lube on
>> the D-ring its likely to fall out as you try to place the top back on the
>> canister. Seems like the channel ought to be on the canister.
>> I think the Magnum has a lot going for it, but a few design quirks keep it
>> from being as good as it could be, IMHO.
>>
>>
>
>yeah I agree. My D ring constantly falls out when putting this thing
>together. They are handy though and easy to move from tank to tank. I
>borrowed a System 1 diatom filter from a friend and this little unit is
>amazing. Much easier to use than a Vortex. Hangs on the tank and can be
>easily moved from tank to tank. I had quite a bit of free floating algae in
>my 77 heavily planted tank. Hooked this think up and it was amazing how
>clear the water was within an hour. The next day I used it in my fish room.
>Charged it with 5 tbls of diatom powder and did 10 x 10g tanks using the
>same charge. Nice little unit.
>
>Rick
>

Concerns over getting the Dring to seat properly lead me to get the
Regular Magnum. It sits on the floor, and has a completely round
ring. Like the HOT version, though, it too is on the lid, not the
canister. When in a not paying enough attention, I have had a couple
issues getting to stay on properly..... it didn't take long to notice
it.. a few drops spurting out, air back-filling into the canister...

To date I have not had to use the silicon that came with it. <crosses
fingers ><knocks wood>

--Tony

Date: 05 May 2004 01:41:50
From: GloFish
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

On Tue, 04 May 2004 22:48:22 GMT, "TR"
<trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote:

<snipping >
>
>The instructions are on a separate piece of paper (not in the manual). It
>may have come with the Micron cartridge (it is titled "Instructions for
>Micron Cartridge" on the front side). I purchased the "HOT pro" kit with
>gravel vac, etc.
>On the flip side it has directions for charging with diatom powder, a fast
>method (simply pouring into the canister) and a better method, charging with
>a container until the recirculated watrer is clear.
>
>At the bottom of the slip are the numbers "004696", and perhaps a date
>"10/97". It does have the ineland logo and address on the slip.
>Perhaps it is just something that comes with the Pro kits? I also ordered an
>extra cartridge, an honestly I do not recall if the slip was packaged with
>the kit or with the second separate cartridge.
>--Tom
>
>

I'll have to double check that... I too got the Pro model, came with
the gravel vac, and a double set of Bio-Wheels.

--Tony

Date: 01 May 2004 15:55:11
From: SamB
Subject: Re: Diatom Filter or H.O.T. Magnum

ineland has always provided that info and mine came with DE for use in
the filter
SamB

"TR" <trNO_SPAMedick@mindREMOVEspring.com > wrote in message
news:edLkc.916$a47.427@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Randy Ocano" <rocano@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ftbr80pf2qk7qs6s4qvp55andhvh59h6fq@4ax.com...
> > I've been using a HOT Magnum for years for just polishing.The micron
> > cartridge generally does a good job but on rare occasions I charge it
> > with diatom powder. I doubt if ineland recommends this or if it
> > would void your warranty but it seemed to work fine. Haven't touched
> > either of my vortex filters since I've started using the HOT Magnum.
> > To charge the filter you'll need two input tubes, one for the input
> > and the other for the output. Place the filter in the tank and
> > submerge a small plastic pitcher and bring it up with the input and
> > exhaust tubes in it. I then slowly dump a cup of diatom powder in it.
>
> Just received my HOT Magnum yesterday. ineland now includes an
> instruction sheet for charging and using the micron filter with diatom
> powder. So I woudn't think there will be any warranty issues :-)
> Instuctions are basically as you describe.
>
>